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Stepper motor heating and series/parallel watts

April 10, 2019, 4:20 pm
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If steppers are run in series, the voltage per stepper drops off - supposedly to half.
But can that reduction be made up partially by increasing current for series steppers? (Assume the driver can deliver the current and that supply is 24V vs 12V)

Applying Ohms Law - likely way too simplistically - to the following example:

In parallel: 1A stepper, 2.5V, 2.5ohms (easy numbers to work with) Operating: 1A x 2.5V = 2.5W. So, 2.5W of heating power, the max the motor can take without overheating.

In series: Same steppers. Operating: (current the same in series circuit) 1A x1.25V (per motor with V divided across two motors) = 1.25W. So only half the heating power. The motor should be able to take a higher current

Can the stepper take up to almost 2A when in series? 2A x 1.25V = 2.5W, the same power load as it would see in the parallel example.
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Steppers aren't moving

April 10, 2019, 10:19 pm
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Hi guys,

As you can see on topic my stepper aren't moving. I'm working with RAMPS 1.4 and DRV8825(1/32 microsteps). Here's a list of what I've been trying;

-my fan is working termocouples read temp. and ednstops send signal with M119

-I've seen some videos of tuning the driver, they fixed the value A/2.5 = Vc(1.8A/2.5=0.72 Volts) but there's thing do I have to do this with usb plugged on or off because values are changing.

-I've made tuning things. I double checked wiring etc. (my wiring order is B- A+ A- B+)

-I tried to change steps/mm values and I tried very different values.

-I bough new ramps and drivers.


Still when I click home motors stucked. Do you guys have any ideas about it? Thanks
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Re: Steppers aren't moving

April 10, 2019, 11:29 pm
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Re: Steppers aren't moving

April 10, 2019, 11:42 pm
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Re: Steppers aren't moving

April 11, 2019, 12:36 am
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Re: Steppers aren't moving

April 11, 2019, 1:10 am
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I'm pretty sure that you're right. I'm going to try it when I get home and it's going to work but I've made my connection with this picture and it looks like A's and B's are on the same coil. I think I need to make a research about how steppers work? :)


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Re: Steppers aren't moving

April 11, 2019, 1:40 am
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The stepper drivers used can only drive 4 or 6 wire steppers.

4 wires you just identify the coils and plug them in
5 wires you would need to cut the joining center taps (inside the motor) ,
6 wires you ignore the com connections an treat it like a 4 wire.
8 wires you would need to turn it into 4 wires.
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Re: Steppers aren't moving

April 11, 2019, 1:54 am
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I'm saying is this picture looks like 1a(a+) and 2a(a-) are on the same coil.
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Re: Steppers aren't moving

April 11, 2019, 2:16 am
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a+ and a- are one coil, but it should be on 1A and 1B on the ramps.

The number in 1a or 2a is the coil identifier, the letter is either end of the coil.

So 1A and 1B is one coil
and 2A and 2B is the other coil
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Re: Stepper motor heating and series/parallel watts

April 11, 2019, 2:42 am
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The drivers used in 3D printers are constant current drivers. As long as the supply voltage is high enough, the motor will get the current that you set. If you connect the moors in parallel, they share the current.

In your example, you have steppers that are rated at 1A and have a phase resistance of 2.5 ohms. You want to run them at 1A peak current (in practice you would normally run them at a lower current).

- If you connect them in parallel, set the driver to 2A. Each motor phase will get 0 to 1A (depending on the microstep position) and the voltage drop across the parallel pair of windings at standstill will be 0 to 2.5V.

- If you connect them in series, set the driver to 1A. Each motor phase will get 0 to 1A (depending on the microstep position) and the voltage drop across the series pair of windings at standstill will be 0 to 5V.

The main differences between the two configurations is:

- In the parallel configuration, the driver will run much hotter because it will be dissipating more than 4x the power, because of the higher current

- In the series configuration, the speed at which torque starts to drop will be 50% lower than for the parallel configuration. This is because the higher the speed, the more voltage is needed to force the current through the windings. Eventually the voltage needed becomes higher than the driver supply voltage, so the full current can no longer be maintained. There is a motor EMF calculator at [reprapfirmware.org] to help you estimate this speed.
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Re: Steppers aren't moving

April 11, 2019, 12:53 pm
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My steppers are working. Thank you so much.
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Re: Wire gauge

April 11, 2019, 4:33 pm
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Thank you. Very useful link. Thanks
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Re: Stepper motor heating and series/parallel watts

April 11, 2019, 5:17 pm
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Thanks DC42. I see my error. I halved the V for each motor. But if current taken to 2 A, with 2.5ohms per motor, V drop per motor is 5V....above the motor V rating.
Your explanation is clear.
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Re: Stepper Motors not Moving

April 23, 2019, 12:41 am
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1. Neither stepping motor turns. Consider the power circuit. Control signal input circuit, because the motor circuit problem can be basically eliminated.

2. The power problem is also relatively simple. Cut off the power supply V+ and V- of a group of drivers. General power aging.

3. The wiring problem is much more complicated. But it is also very intuitive, there is no occasional failure before the problem occurs. It's the machine that comes and goes. If so, you can be 100% sure of the problem.

4. Signal problems are more complex, but the probability of no two pulses is less. If one pulse controls two drivers, such problems are more common.

5. Emergency stop switch problem. If the emergency stop switch is broken, the motor will not move.
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23HM20-0383s with drv8825 drivers

April 25, 2019, 5:03 am
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I am building a 3d printer with 23HM20-0383s Nema 23 stepper motors, drv8825 drivers and a ramps 1.6 plus. My question has to do with adjusting the Vref of the 8825s. The data sheet for the motors state .38A per phase. Am I correct in assuming that since these motors are bipolar, the current is doubled to .76A per motor total. Therefore, should my driver Vref be set to .2-.3V? I made these assumptions and attempted to turn down my Vref that far and I couldn't get below .38-.4V.
Any suggestions?
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TMC2130 Extremely loud

April 27, 2019, 8:59 am
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Hey everyone.
So, I finally decided to install my brand new TMC2130 drivers. Everything went well, they are recognized with M122. Settings in marlin are mostly default, just enabled the TMC2130 drivers.
But I have a big problem with them. Instead of being quiet, they are extremely loud (louder than my default A4988s). Here is a video with TMC2130 and here with A4988.

Any ideas why is this happening? Thanks.

My printer: FLSun Kossel (simply a delta) with MKS Gen L, 12V PSU.

M122:
14:46:10.580 : X	Y	Z
14:46:10.581 : Enabled		false	false	false
14:46:10.581 : Set current	1000	1000	1000
14:46:10.583 : RMS current	994	994	994
14:46:10.586 : MAX current	1402	1402	1402
14:46:10.587 : Run current	17/31	17/31	17/31
14:46:10.588 : Hold current	8/31	8/31	8/31
14:46:10.590 : CS actual		8/31	8/31	8/31
14:46:10.590 : PWM scale		1	1	1
14:46:10.591 : vsense		0=.325	0=.325	0=.325
14:46:10.593 : stealthChop	true	true	true
14:46:10.593 : msteps		16	16	16
14:46:10.595 : tstep		1048575	1048575	1048575
14:46:10.596 : pwm
14:46:10.596 : threshold		0	0	0
14:46:10.597 : [mm/s]		-	-	-
14:46:10.598 : OT prewarn	false	false	false
14:46:10.599 : OT prewarn has
14:46:10.600 : been triggered	false	false	false
14:46:10.600 : off time		5	5	5
14:46:10.602 : blank time	24	24	24
14:46:10.602 : hysteresis
14:46:10.603 : -end		2	2	2
14:46:10.603 : -start		3	3	3
14:46:10.605 : Stallguard thrs	0	0	0
14:46:10.605 : DRVSTATUS	X	Y	Z
14:46:10.606 : stallguard
14:46:10.606 : sg_result		0	0	0
14:46:10.608 : fsactive
14:46:10.608 : stst		X	X	X
14:46:10.608 : olb
14:46:10.609 : ola
14:46:10.609 : s2gb
14:46:10.609 : s2ga
14:46:10.611 : otpw
14:46:10.611 : ot
14:46:10.612 : Driver registers:	X = 0x80:08:00:00
14:46:10.612 : Y = 0x80:08:00:00
14:46:10.614 : Z = 0x80:08:00:00

Stepper Driver types:
#define X_DRIVER_TYPE  TMC2130
#define Y_DRIVER_TYPE  TMC2130
#define Z_DRIVER_TYPE  TMC2130
#define X2_DRIVER_TYPE A4988
#define Y2_DRIVER_TYPE A4988
#define Z2_DRIVER_TYPE A4988
#define E0_DRIVER_TYPE A4988
#define E1_DRIVER_TYPE A4988
#define E2_DRIVER_TYPE A4988
#define E3_DRIVER_TYPE A4988
#define E4_DRIVER_TYPE A4988
TMC2130 config: 
#if HAS_TRINAMIC

  #define R_SENSE           0.11  // R_sense resistor for SilentStepStick2130
  #define HOLD_MULTIPLIER    0.5  // Scales down the holding current from run current
  #define INTERPOLATE       true  // Interpolate X/Y/Z_MICROSTEPS to 256

  #define X_CURRENT         1000  // rms current in mA. Multiply by 1.41 for peak current.
  #define X_MICROSTEPS        16  // 0..256

  #define Y_CURRENT         1000
  #define Y_MICROSTEPS        16

  #define Z_CURRENT          1000
  #define Z_MICROSTEPS        16

  #define X2_CURRENT         800
  #define X2_MICROSTEPS       16

  #define Y2_CURRENT         800
  #define Y2_MICROSTEPS       16

  #define Z2_CURRENT         800
  #define Z2_MICROSTEPS       16

  #define E0_CURRENT         800
  #define E0_MICROSTEPS       16

  #define E1_CURRENT         800
  #define E1_MICROSTEPS       16

  #define E2_CURRENT         800
  #define E2_MICROSTEPS       16

  #define E3_CURRENT         800
  #define E3_MICROSTEPS       16

  #define E4_CURRENT         800
  #define E4_MICROSTEPS       16

  /**
   * Use software SPI for TMC2130.
   * The default SW SPI pins are defined the respective pins files,
   * but you can override or define them here.
   */
  //#define TMC_USE_SW_SPI
  //#define TMC_SW_MOSI       -1
  //#define TMC_SW_MISO       -1
  //#define TMC_SW_SCK        -1

  /**
   * Use Trinamic's ultra quiet stepping mode.
   * When disabled, Marlin will use spreadCycle stepping mode.
   */
  #define STEALTHCHOP

  /**
   * Monitor Trinamic TMC2130 and TMC2208 drivers for error conditions,
   * like overtemperature and short to ground. TMC2208 requires hardware serial.
   * In the case of overtemperature Marlin can decrease the driver current until error condition clears.
   * Other detected conditions can be used to stop the current print.
   * Relevant g-codes:
   * M906 - Set or get motor current in milliamps using axis codes X, Y, Z, E. Report values if no axis codes given.
   * M911 - Report stepper driver overtemperature pre-warn condition.
   * M912 - Clear stepper driver overtemperature pre-warn condition flag.
   * M122 S0/1 - Report driver parameters (Requires TMC_DEBUG)
   */
  #define MONITOR_DRIVER_STATUS

  #if ENABLED(MONITOR_DRIVER_STATUS)
    #define CURRENT_STEP_DOWN     50  // [mA]
    #define REPORT_CURRENT_CHANGE
    #define STOP_ON_ERROR
  #endif

  /**
   * The driver will switch to spreadCycle when stepper speed is over HYBRID_THRESHOLD.
   * This mode allows for faster movements at the expense of higher noise levels.
   * STEALTHCHOP needs to be enabled.
   * M913 X/Y/Z/E to live tune the setting
   */
  //#define HYBRID_THRESHOLD

  #define X_HYBRID_THRESHOLD     100  // [mm/s]
  #define X2_HYBRID_THRESHOLD    100
  #define Y_HYBRID_THRESHOLD     100
  #define Y2_HYBRID_THRESHOLD    100
  #define Z_HYBRID_THRESHOLD       3
  #define Z2_HYBRID_THRESHOLD      3
  #define E0_HYBRID_THRESHOLD     30
  #define E1_HYBRID_THRESHOLD     30
  #define E2_HYBRID_THRESHOLD     30
  #define E3_HYBRID_THRESHOLD     30
  #define E4_HYBRID_THRESHOLD     30

  /**
   * Use stallGuard2 to sense an obstacle and trigger an endstop.
   * You need to place a wire from the driver's DIAG1 pin to the X/Y endstop pin.
   * X, Y, and Z homing will always be done in spreadCycle mode.
   *
   * X/Y/Z_HOMING_SENSITIVITY is used for tuning the trigger sensitivity.
   * Higher values make the system LESS sensitive.
   * Lower value make the system MORE sensitive.
   * Too low values can lead to false positives, while too high values will collide the axis without triggering.
   * It is advised to set X/Y/Z_HOME_BUMP_MM to 0.
   * M914 X/Y/Z to live tune the setting
   */
  //#define SENSORLESS_HOMING // TMC2130 only

  #if ENABLED(SENSORLESS_HOMING)
    #define X_HOMING_SENSITIVITY  8
    #define Y_HOMING_SENSITIVITY  8
    #define Z_HOMING_SENSITIVITY  8
  #endif

  /**
   * Enable M122 debugging command for TMC stepper drivers.
   * M122 S0/1 will enable continous reporting.
   */
  #define TMC_DEBUG

  /**
   * M915 Z Axis Calibration
   *
   * - Adjust Z stepper current,
   * - Drive the Z axis to its physical maximum, and
   * - Home Z to account for the lost steps.
   *
   * Use M915 Snn to specify the current.
   * Use M925 Znn to add extra Z height to Z_MAX_POS.
   */
  //#define TMC_Z_CALIBRATION
  #if ENABLED(TMC_Z_CALIBRATION)
    #define CALIBRATION_CURRENT 250
    #define CALIBRATION_EXTRA_HEIGHT 10
  #endif

  /**
   * You can set your own advanced settings by filling in predefined functions.
   * A list of available functions can be found on the library github page
   * [github.com]
   * [github.com]
   *
   * Example:
   * #define TMC_ADV() { \
   *   stepperX.diag0_temp_prewarn(1); \
   *   stepperY.interpolate(0); \
   * }
   */
  #define TMC_ADV() {  }

#endif // TMC2130 || TMC2208

P.S.: Yes, this is a repost from marlin sections, as it probably belongs here.
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Prusa i3 Ramps to Motor wiring, 2015/2016 model

May 9, 2019, 3:22 pm
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I received a Prusa i3 printer in Jan 2016, just now getting around to assembling it.

Control board for the motor connector is documented as [1A - 1B - 2A - 2B]

The 4 pin connector is Red-Blue-Green-Black (1A, 1B, 2A, 2B)

The motor 6-pin connector however seems to be A --- B - C --- D, with A-C making one coil, and B-D the other coil per a Bechang motor diagram I found,
and confirmed via multimeter with an unconnected motor.
[www.hotmcu.com]
Motors are P/N 17HD40005-22B, BESHENG date code12-14-15

The 6 pin connectors are assembled Red --- Blue - Green --- Black. (or 1A, blank, 1B, 2A, blank, 2B)

Assuming 1A/1B and 2A/2B are the coils, then it seems the motor end needs to be:
Red --- Green - Blue --- Black (1A, blank, 2A, 1B, blank 2B)

Can anyone confirm?
We managed to lose a cable also while it was put aside, so I need to order one. I'd prefer to order a couple with the correct pinout and not fight the pins out of a new housing to make them correct.

I see cables available with both the straight connections, and with the swapped middle pins

Thanks!
CrossRoads

Edit - this photo seems to show 1A-1B-2A-2B as red-blue-green-black, and the motor end as red-black-blue-green, or 1A-2B-1B-2A

[es.aliexpress.com]

So some swapping seems to be needed.
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Re: Prusa i3 Ramps to Motor wiring, 2015/2016 model

May 9, 2019, 11:23 pm
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"Assuming 1A/1B and 2A/2B are the coils, "

correct

do not get hung up on colors, stepper motor manufacturers use what ever colors they have at the time and even switch mid runs,
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Re: Prusa i3 Ramps to Motor wiring, 2015/2016 model

May 10, 2019, 7:56 am
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As long as you get the coils right (1A and 2A together, etc.), then things will work, you just have to swap wires on one of the coils to get the stepper to go the right direction.
Yeah, you'll have to wrestle with the connectors, so do NOT buy a bag of 10 cables for $2! Get quality cables and save yourself the grief of dealing with marginal wire gauge for the current and bad crimps. I am big on the "two cables for $6" type of deals. With these, you can easily swap wires by using a single sharp pointy-thing to lift the plastic tab.

IMO,
DLC
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Re: Prusa i3 Ramps to Motor wiring, 2015/2016 model

May 12, 2019, 5:32 pm
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Got the wires - made a mistake and didn't measure pin pitch on both ends. Turns out only motor needed 2mm, control board needed 2.54mm. Made one up with a 4-pin crimp housing from Pololu.com (just a pin-friction for now, need a JST type housing for long term use) so we're off & running.


Now seeing a "mintemp" error, while we can use an IR thermoneter and see that things are definitely hot. Waiting for it to cool down and see if we have a bad thermistor.
This is ours, the Electron 3D i3 with the X-axis pieces in yellow instead of black



(not the auto bed leveling tho)

Hmm, measuring the thermistor, it jumps all over the place, vs the bed thermistor which returns a pretty solid reading. Could I have a bad thermistor? If so, is is replaceable? I don't see how one would remove it to install a new one. Do its wires feed in thru the thermistor nozzle? It feels like it just sits loose in an opening.
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